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Super Nanny

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Posted

wednesday nite, 9pm eastern on abc. from the preview i saw tonite...it appears that there is a small boy (perhaps 4, 5 yrs old) that likes to "dress up" and daddy don' like it. not sure where it's all gonna go...but it might be worth a watch just to see how jo handles the situation if the boy likes being a little girl.

-michael

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Posted

Thank you, Michael. I will try to make a point of watching it tonight.

Bonnie

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Posted

I missed it. Did you watch it, Michael? If you did, how did it go?

Bonnie

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Posted

jo...the super nanny, handled the situation pretty well. i'm sure because of the nature of the show, they couldn't really delve into why the youngest boy liked dressing up in girl's things and strutting around the house like a mini diva.

however...jo didn't let the father go on about "he's a boy," "i don't want my son wearing girl's clothes," etc. tho she didn't make too much conversation about it, there was one point where she asked the father if he was afraid his son was going to be a cross dresser or transvestite or something. her tone was like she asking what would be so wrong with that.

during the point in the show where she was teaching the parents that they needed to seperate thier home business from family life, and she was showing the father how much fun playtime and "dress-up" would be with his kids, jo dismissed the boy's choice in costume...saying that the kids were just having fun playing dress-up like all kids do.

i was a little disappointed that she dismissed it that way, but again...i'm sure the show did not want to derail it's theme. personally...i sorta think the boy likes acting like a girl. and since i don't really believe in cross dressers, the family's youngest child just might be a "blanch" instead of a "blake."

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Posted

and since i don't really believe in cross dressers

I'm sorry if I offend any CDs on here... but I've been coming around to this point of view. I can't logically reconcile all the options any other way. I'm told that one "discovers" they are a cross-dresser, is born that way, and must dress to feel whole and fully expressed. I don't see how that's not the same thing as a TS, just along a different part of the spectrum. There are some TSes who are obviously OK with not "going all the way" so it stands to reason that there would be TSes even further back on the spectrum who are OK with just expressing that part of themselves once in a while.

I could understand a man or woman who wants to act as or dress as the other just for the experience, or out of curiosity, or for a job (exotic dancers) or something. That's something else entirely though, that's a conscious choice.

I can understand a man or a woman who gets their jollies from dressing as the other, even. Anything to feel closer to your object of desire, right?

I just don't understand how a CD is not a type of TS.

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Posted

:: sits down next to aylwin and whispers :: it's okay...i think you and i are the only ones here that don't believe in CDs ;) but we won't tell anyone...it'll be our little secret...

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Posted

:: sits down next to aylwin and whispers :: it's okay...i think you and i are the only ones here that don't believe in CDs ;) but we won't tell anyone...it'll be our little secret...

I am of the opinion that people should just wear whatever they want to. Many girls technically cross dress and no one makes a huge deal about it, yet a man wearing women's clothes is somehow taboo and immediately gets a label of CD.

Society is strange.

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Posted

Crossdressers are often totally content and function well having a bifurcated gender identity. If you suggest living as the opposite sex 24/7 or even undergoing SRS to a CD they will say "Hell, no," and if confronted with never manifesting as the other gender, a CD will also have problems with that. The nature of a "well-adjusted" CD is thus a two-faceted personality with a balance between the components that feels quite right. Someone who is classically TS doesn't wish to be, or be seen as their birth sex-- that's a very different thing. So IMO, crossdressers do indeed exist and are separate and legitimate. :)

Annie

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Posted

"Many girls technically cross dress and no one makes a huge deal about it, yet a man wearing women's clothes is somehow taboo and immediately gets a label of CD." -DeeJay

considering that no one thinks twice about women donning men's clothing...that it's acceptable, i would hardly call it cross dressing. it's like saying that indecent exposure is illegal. well...it is and it isn't. a woman out in public with no top on would be in violation of decency laws, a man would not. why? because it's acceptable for a man to go without a top on.

considering the reason for this website, terminology such as "cross-dressing" really only applies to MTF transgender individuals...for the simple reason that men in dresses is not acceptable. so the activity is labelled, and condemned as undesirable.

additionally, as i've mentioned before...whether this society wants to admit it or not (which it prefers not to because it would be politically incorrect), it IS a patriarchal society. women are second class citizens. for a man to "want to be a woman" so to speak is demeaning to the man and men in general. for a woman to "want to be a man" is considered no more than jealousy on the woman's part. the woman and her petty emotions are dismissed. the man and his queer tendancies is taken to task.

-michael

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Posted

"Many girls technically cross dress and no one makes a huge deal about it, yet a man wearing women's clothes is somehow taboo and immediately gets a label of CD." -DeeJay

considering that no one thinks twice about women donning men's clothing...that it's acceptable, i would hardly call it cross dressing. it's like saying that indecent exposure is illegal. well...it is and it isn't. a woman out in public with no top on would be in violation of decency laws, a man would not. why? because it's acceptable for a man to go without a top on.

-michael

Indeed you are correct on this matter. And its interesting to point out it out too.

Delving into this specific matter becomes complicated too because then you have to define what is and is not indecent and what circumstances allow for the matter to be considered.

I don't have any issue with nudity. I don't have any issue with clothing.

I am not a fan of modesty, but on the same note I take no pride in offending others.

So with that in mind I am not certain where the line should be drawn with regards to indecency. I believe that if its right for one gender, then its just as fine for the other. On the subject of breasts, everyone has got them to varying degrees - why should it be such a big deal? There are many men who have larger breasts than many women, so should that not be indecent too?

I don't know, its really nothing that I can answer. Just more to think about I suppose...

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Posted

Here we go with definitions again. <_< I suppose we must invent a new word for what I'm calling a TS (and I guess what Michael is calling a TS). There's a spectrum of people who are unhappy with their socially assigned gender, their biologically assigned sex, or both. Waving my hands and muddling the concepts together, you have:

- People completely content to be men or women in all senses

- People who are curious about their "opposites"

- People who have some attraction to the idea of being their "opposites"

- People who need to feel like they are "touching" their "opposites" (in a role sense)

- People who feel like they're a mix of both

- People who feel like they're probably in the wrong body, might change it or their social presentation somewhat

- People who know they're in the wrong body, probably will change it

- People who can't stand the body they're in and must change it

Traditionally, people in the last category were labeled TS. People in category #4 or so, maybe #5, are labeled "CD". People in #6-#7 are labeled "TG".

I think what Michael is trying to say, and it's sort of become my mental model, is that there's no completely different category here. It's just a continuum with some people being relatively OK with their bodies and social roles as-is, and some feeling an absolute neccessity to change it.

Maybe that's just projection though. :) If not I guess I simply don't understand what the term "cross dresser" means at all. It would certainly explain why so many people start out identifying as CD and end up on the TS end of things.

Oh and can I just say.. I hate the word "transgenderist". It makes me want to pound something or someone. Every time I hear or read it I start hearing The Final Countdown playing in my head, with GOB waving his hands and talking about <whisper>illuuuuuusions</>

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Posted

While we're stealing some thunder from David's "hated words" topic, I really don't care for the recently coined "cisgender." The first syllable reminds me of the bathroom references of young children: "I've gotta make a 'cis'..." :)

Again, on Aylwin's definition list-- ALL the categories fall into the accepted description of transgender, not just #6 and #7.

Annie

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Posted

Perhaps "TG" is really the word I'm looking for. It's unfortunate that, like "transition", it's come to be somewhat politically loaded.

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Posted

Oh and can I just say.. I hate the word "transgenderist". It makes me want to pound something or someone. Every time I hear or read it I start hearing The Final Countdown playing in my head, with GOB waving his hands and talking about <whisper>illuuuuuusions</>

Ok, you just made me snort coffee onto my keyboard damn you!

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Posted

I'm told that one "discovers" they are a cross-dresser, is born that way, and must dress to feel whole and fully expressed. I don't see how that's not the same thing as a TS, just along a different part of the spectrum. There are some TSes who are obviously OK with not "going all the way" so it stands to reason that there would be TSes even further back on the spectrum who are OK with just expressing that part of themselves once in a while... I can understand a man or a woman who gets their jollies from dressing as the other, even. Anything to feel closer to your object of desire, right?

From what I hear, most CDs identify as male, and the cross-dressing is exactly what you describe: a way of feeling closer to the object of one's desire. Except for the clothing aspect, they are just as masculine as any other men.

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