Thomas Beatie

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Posted

For those of you who haven't heard...... Thomas Beatie is pregnant AGAIN. He is due in June. There will be a Barbara Walter's special on ABC tonight about the first baby/pregnancy. Barbara didn't know Thomas was pregnant again until the middle of the show. So here we go again. Be ready for another media onslaught.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/nov/1...beatie-pregnant

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"Thomas Beatie is pregnant AGAIN...So here we go again. Be ready for another media onslaught." -LMP

awwww, give the guy a break. unemployment among TS people is very high. i'm sure it's even higher for PREGNANT TRANSMEN. he probably needs the money!! gotta feed the kids, ya know.

okay...so that was uncalled for. <_<

:: shrugs :: sorry

-mike

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Posted

in addition to the barbara walters show that LMP has advised us about... here's yet another thomas beatie story -

tuesday, 18 november, 9pm eastern (8pm central USA) on the discovery health channel - pregnant man (1 hour)

synopsis: Thomas Beatie took the world by storm when he revealed he was pregnant earlier this year. In this exclusive film for Discovery Health, Thomas and his wife Nancy share the intimate details of their amazing story.

if you can't catch the show at this time, check the schedule - it will be run more than once <_<

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Posted

It didn't take very long for Thomas to get another bun in the oven. Is it a labor of love or another chance to grab attention and a few dollars more? Am I jealous? Probably. Pro-Baby?

Sorry, Clint Eastwood and my desire to be pregnant is getting the best of me.

- Curls up with a pillow and cries again.

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Posted

Why does he have to be so public about it. I mean I know it shows and everything, but why go on Oprah, and Barbara Walters, why not just have the baby like everyone else does, just family and friends and stuff. Why broadcast it to the world. I'm not saying he should 'hide' it, I'm just asking him to get on with his life however he wants to do it and get off of my tv.

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Posted

not only does he seem to be nothing more than a media whore... he doesn't know what he's talking about - he told barbara walters on her special the nite of 14 november that he was the first man to have a baby.

while there are many transmen that have given birth BEFORE transitioning...he is NOT the first to give birth after transitioning as he claims he is. i'm sure some of you have been around long enough to remember the post i made about matt who had been living as a man for 6 years when he decided to go off T and have a child. i don't believe he went all public about it, tho...or someone would have already busted beatie out for his "error."

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Posted

I agree I think he just needs to shut the hell up, have the child and stop making the rest of the gender comunity look like a bunch of freaks and wakadoes... have he no pride in himself or the significant other that he shares in all this hell not to mention what of the trauma the children to be endured in the future (hey look theres those freeks kids ) yeh good one A hole sorry about that but Im as sick of this as I was with the elections just get it overwith and lets move on...He's a whore Thats plain to see and the media is playing to his needs so they are to blaim as much as he is..Of course we have always known where we have stood with the media... :angry:

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Posted

We've got to be careful not to step over the line here. He made a choice. Was it the choice I would have made? No, but he has to have the freedom to do what he believes is best for himself and his family. I also think we have to be wary of shame and internalized transphobia. We shouldn't go around saying "We're not not him" and such. Don't let shame and internalized transphobia take you over. And to those who say "What about the kids!" two things: 1. His 15 minutes of fame will be over soon enough and he will disappear from the public's radar screen. 2. All he has to do is move in a couple years before the kids start school and again he will disappear.

The problem is not Thomas Beatie. The real problem is societies ignorance. We should be railing against that.

I've said it before and I'll say it again: The discomfort you feel now is short-term, but in the long-term this exposure is good for all of us, it expands the envelope of public consciousness.

my 2¢

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Posted

i know i have said some harsh things on this subject, and i have probably been the most vocal against what beatie has done, but believe it or not...there is a very small (VERY small... B) ) part of me that agrees with all of you who have praised beatie for being brave, and have reminded us all that what he's done should be his right, and that he is doing this for his wife who can no longer have children. it would be quite a noble thing if any man could do for his wife what she is no longer capable of doing, or could never do, if he so wanted.

however, once again, i have to say...if this were a perfect world in which all peoples could live side by side without the fear of condemnation, harrassment, unacceptance, intolerance, etc., then none of us (including me) would have a problem with what beatie has done... and good lord, is doing again! until then, there will be people shocked, disgusted, outraged. come on...let's take things a step at a time - in general, this society does not even embrace TS people yet, let alone understanding and accepting a transman having a baby. in this imperfect, intolerant world i was raised that women have children. unfortunately...i cannot see beyond that. if i could, perhaps i wouldn't even be on this forum because i would have had the 'nads to tell people many moons ago that i was male, and would already be living as the man i should be able to live as. but it is this very society that kept me from doing so... and it is the teaching from this very society that makes me unable to accept seeing a man pregnant and giving birth. but in another post somewhere, i believe i mentioned that the intolerance i harbour in this case does bother me.

and while i personally cannot wrap my brain around a MAN having a baby...i could better accept this if it just wasn't in my face. after watching the barbara walter's special a few nights ago (what i could of it)...i was surprised to find out that this has happened more than the couple times i knew about. it's just that others have done it quietly. i guess while ignorance is not the best state to be in, it is (for me, in this case) bliss...

-michael

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Posted

The only thing (other than being somewhat jealous) that bothers me is the media circus. Although it is a "big story" I feel like the media tends to drag things out a bit too much. You can tell that the Beaties are getting kind of tired of telling the same story over again. But, they are probably get paid. So sure, we all like to get paid. So the question is what is someone willing to trade for the all mighty dollar? Privacy? Self Respect?

The interviews are all beginning to sound like reruns. But then, I mostly turn on the Idiot box so I don't have to listen to my idiot neighbor squawking his fool head off while I'm doing other things.

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Posted

Virginia--

It's tragic but true to a certain extent: You can't choose your relatives or your neighbors.

My next door neighbor is a 70 year old perve who leaves his shades up at night so I can't avoid seeing him slam the salami when I leave for work at 10:45 pm. When he's not doing that, the guy's drinking. On Sundays, he's bombed by 11 am and spends the afternoons screaming vulgarities at his family. Other than that, he's a charming gentleman.... <_<

Annie

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Posted

Bombed by 11:00 am on Sunday? Doesn't he know he's missin' football games?

Luckily, I haven't seen my neighbor spankin' the bad monkey and he doesn't drink. He interacts with his TV rather loudly. Video war Games and movies. Bang Bang, Boom Boom with allot of squawking. Yeah, that's what I need to hear. If he isn't squawking at the TV, he's squawking about who knows what. Then he want's to tell me what he was so loud about.

I'm kind of bad. From time to time I'll walk around with a roll of duct tape and point at him. Maybe that's mean. But, he is a little quieter for a while. Other than the loud squawking and senseless remarks, he is a nice person. So, I do try do be nice and reason with him. I only pull the duct tape out when he gets unreasonable and I never actually use it. As tempting as it might be.

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Posted

That's why he's drunk-- to whoop and holler during football games.

He's a peculiar bird-- a transplanted New Yorker who hates the Giants and roots for the "enemy"-- The Dallas Cowboys.

My windows are open year round so I can hear a lot of this. I do give as good as I get, though. I often crank up 250 watts of stereo when watching movies (for reviewing purposes)-- and the speakers point toward his house. :P

Annie

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Posted

Oh Annie you must get the bose system It is unbelievable for movies and music so clear and the intence sound unbeatable....would be just what the niebors ordered....hahah you little she devil you....lol

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Posted

Every so often I point my speakers and put on the most ruckus hard rock I can find. His sister asked me not to do that because he falls over in his gaming chair. I was wondering what that thud was.

That's why he's drunk-- to whoop and holler during football games.

He's a peculiar bird-- a transplanted New Yorker who hates the Giants and roots for the "enemy"-- The Dallas Cowboys.

My windows are open year round so I can hear a lot of this. I do give as good as I get, though. I often crank up 250 watts of stereo when watching movies (for reviewing purposes)-- and the speakers point toward his house. :P

Annie

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Posted

All I got to say is GOOD FOR HIM!! I am happy he questions even the strongest of gender roles!! Its nice to see a man carrying a baby. :)

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Posted

I totally agree! :)

All I got to say is GOOD FOR HIM!! I am happy he questions even the strongest of gender roles!! Its nice to see a man carrying a baby. :)

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Posted

The programme " The Pregnant Man " is on tonight in the UK on television channel C-4 at 9 pm. It covers Thomas's first pregnancy.

Stephanie

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Posted

There are now two threads on Thomas, so I will post my long reply here and the short one on the other.

I will go off-topic here and there, so I am sorry for that. I am a rather conservative woman, believe me, but over the last decades things have changed so much in society, even in our own LGBT-society. These past few years I realised that I too must change, evolve, be more openminded. I need to accept that things are not either black or white like it used to be in the fifties and sixties—that it is no longer necessary to dress boys in blue and girls in pink. Before I signed up at this forum last week I went through a difficult time of understanding what we transgender people are all about and I have been talking to a lot of gay people as well as they were easier for me to find where I am now.

Having read so many things on this forum and reading about accepting or not accepting pregnant transmen, or transwomen who fathers children or just enjoy their penises, I realise that there is this whole variety of feelings, a whole spectrum of all kinds of people with their own special and unique feelings and desires. And then there are many straight, non-transsexual men and women as well, and they too differ in many ways, they too differ in the ways they feel and act.

Reading (I think) young people's opinions on this forum and reading new progressive ideas made me realise that my own thinking just got stuck in the 60s. I just lived the life as a stereotypical woman. And now that I am in my late 50's I just don't want to be an old-fashioned woman in a skirt and a pearl necklace any more. I want to change too and be more open and accepting of things that are not clear cut. I realise that I too have many different feelings, sometimes even contradictory. Do I need to choose to be one thing to be accepted and easy to understand for the general public? Or am I allowed to be unique, everything, different from what my peers consider good transgender behaviour? Why do I need to fit into a category? Will it be helpful if television audiences only see typical transgenders or will it be better to make audiences understand that we are all unique people that come in many varieties. Because if they do understand that there is diversity in our transsociety, people who enter our lives will understand and realise that we are not all the same. Do we all need to act and feel in a certain way to make it easy to understand for outsiders? Should transmen be like “real” men, should transwomen be like “real” women.

That is why this issue with this pregnant transman touched me so much. (I do hope that Michael reads my words here and I also hope he finds my reply on the drag king cross-dressing board so he understands that it is difficult to define a person, define personal feelings, personal needs.). Reading the posts on this issue on the pregnant transman on various threads, I realised that you/we are so afraid to confuse non-transsexual people and offend our peers the moment we do not act and feel as stereotypical straight males and females. I read Jo'C ideas and I like her, she sounds young and flexible and compassionate and accepting of things that are unique. I was wondering why some of us find it important that our fellow transgenders present themselves in an easy to understand and appropriate manner to outsiders who read or see us in the the media.

This pregnant transman appears to embarrass some of us because he is not what we want outsiders to understand about transpeople? I disagree with Michael but I can understand him. I myself am many different people in one body. There is a very feminine me, but there is also a masculine me, a me that I dare not show to the outside world as they wouldn’t accept and understand that. Why would she go through all this trouble to become a woman in order to desire to be a man sometimes? But why is this so bad? Because I might confuse people, outsiders, people who watch us on television or read about us in magazines? If my gay friend is allowed to be versatile, why not me? One day he likes to be masculine, the next day he wants to be feminine. So why can't I? He is still a man, no matter whether he is feminine on Monday and masculine on Tuesday, neutral on Wednesday, a cross-dresser on Thursday, crossing bounderies by having sex with a girl on Friday, wanting to be a mother on Saturday and taking a rest on Sunday.

This is actually what he told me this weekend and I thought it was good example. Why is he allowed to be so flexible as a gay man. He told me he gets applauded by other gays during orgies because he is so flexible, he has so many faces, so many different behaviours and needs. And gays understand that their peers come in many forms and shapes and outsiders know that too. People outside our LGBT world wouldn't go nuts about my gay friends behaviour. But the moment a transsexual woman likes to have sex as a man on Monday, be a nice conservative woman on Tuesday, be a slut on Wednesday, misses her penis on Thursday, wants to cater to her lesbian feelings on Friday, wishes to be androgynous on Saturday and taking a rest on Sunday, then suddenly “we” fear that television audiences feel confused? Instead of criticizing a wonderful pregnant unique man, I think it might be better to make those television audiences understand that transgenders come in many shapes and forms and everyone has they own unique feelings and desires and ways of expressing themselves, just like the men and women who are sitting on the couch watching unique transgender people on television. I hope and pray that this wasn’t a publicity stunt and I hope and pray that it wasn't all about money as was suggested. I haven’t seen the recent television interview with Walters, but I do hope that this transman wanted to cultivate outsiders minds so they can now start to accept and understand that transgender are not all the same.

Patricia

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Posted

patricia - i did read your posts on the threads "drag kings," "a strange news story" and of course this one. i respect that you have stepped back to look at and evaluate your own feelings, attitudes and tolerances. i've recently turned 51, and by what you've observed, i should be a bit more open-minded being younger than you.

but most of what you describe...this today, that tomorrow, something different the following day...in my opinion falls in the category of the "gender outlaw," the transgender individual who is hell-bent on cramming not only his/her TG/TS status down everyone's throats, but also goes about his/her gender bending seemingly expecting everyone to accept and understand that which would be, for the most part, not even accepted or understood in the non-TG/TS world. it seems the gender outlaw is out to intentionally confound and confuse, and takes "out loud and proud" to an uber-extreme.

despite the fact that many of us dislike labels, boundaries and intolerances...they are a fact of life. there are maximum tolerances in any situation. example, a rubber band -depending on it's size- can be stretched quite a ways. but there comes a point where it can be stretched no further...and if one continues to try to get more out of it, it will eventually break. this same analogy can be applied to men and women, be they cisgender or transgender, straight or gay, and the society in which they live. one can go only so far until society says..."enough is enough."

true, it's no longer necessary to dress little boys in blue and little girls in pink. but for the most part, they are still expected to dress as the boys or girls they are. and while i personally wouldn't mind seeing a woman in only one piece of her bikini... i don't wanna see some guy in a TWO-piece bikini. and whether cisgender, transgender, straight or gay...neither does the majority of the rest of society.

the transgender community can be graced with enough diversity without being outlandish, without employing shock value, without being outlaws. we are men and women, and despite being transgender, we can still be like most men and women in society yet be unique without being outrageous, without outraging those around us. being transgender is not a license to flip society the bird. it's not an excuse to make a mockery of gender.

i do not condemn you for wanting to be more open-minded. i respect that you want to bring your own life into the present. and i think we'll all agree the world could do with considerably more tolerance. but even i, being TG/TS and wanting the world to accept me as a man, am willing to recognize that tolerance has boundaries.

-michael

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Posted

Thank you Michael. I still have a lot a learn. I agree with your explanation. You explained it to me very beautifully and eloquently. I can keep it short this time. You're absolutely right. Yet, I can't help feeling a lot of sympathy for Thomas and I am glad that I got to know him through the media. Perhaps because he has such a lovely appearance. As a straight woman who has never met a transman before, I questioned whether I could feel attracted to a transman. And when I saw Thomas on TV recently for the first time, I realised that I could.

Thank you once again for taking the time to explain things to me that I never analysed before.

Patricia

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Posted

<br /><br /><br />

Sorry, my JavaScript is corrupted so I can"t use the quote feature, but that was an awesome post Michael, very eloquent.

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Okay, two more questions for Michael,

What is cisgender?

As I said earlier, I agree with your ideas. Interesting, because I first didn't. But how do you feel about people experimenting and crosing bouderies in a private setting, whether they be alone with another person or a group? I expect you to answer that one can do whatever they want to do or be with whoever they are in the privacy of their own homes, but that you feel one does not need to splash their fetishes or "difficult-to-understand-behaviour/choices" in public and in the media.

Interestingly, it just dawned on me why my parents were so fearful about people finding out about my being a transsexual. They encouraged me to be conservative in my behaviour and they only accepted me if I would live in deep stealth mode. I always thought they felt ashamed of me and that they didn't love me. I thought they just tolerated me because I was their only child and it was better to have a freak as a child than no child at all. I always reasoned that they remained in contact with me and friendly to me as long as no one knew I was a freak, but I now realise that they didn't feel this way at all. They were always nice to me, but very scared that other people would find out. Not because they felt ashamed, but just because they feared that others wouldn't accept me, understand me and hurt me. They just wanted to protect me for being ridiculed. My parents are dead now but I finally understand why they did what they did. They were born long before the second world war, thus it was already hard enough for them to go through this whole process with me. Michael, you just made me realise that my parents loved me. Big hug!

Patricia.

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Posted

but most of what you describe...this today, that tomorrow, something different the following day...in my opinion falls in the category of the "gender outlaw," the transgender individual who is hell-bent on cramming not only his/her TG/TS status down everyone's throats, but also goes about his/her gender bending seemingly expecting everyone to accept and understand that which would be, for the most part, not even accepted or understood in the non-TG/TS world. it seems the gender outlaw is out to intentionally confound and confuse, and takes "out loud and proud" to an uber-extreme.

despite the fact that many of us dislike labels, boundaries and intolerances...they are a fact of life. there are maximum tolerances in any situation. example, a rubber band -depending on it's size- can be stretched quite a ways. but there comes a point where it can be stretched no further...and if one continues to try to get more out of it, it will eventually break. this same analogy can be applied to men and women, be they cisgender or transgender, straight or gay, and the society in which they live. one can go only so far until society says..."enough is enough."

-michael

Are you sure you're not perhaps taking these generalized statements to an uber-extreme, Michael? ;)

I do not identify as an "outlaw" regarding my gender, and although I do frequently mention on this board that I am an androgyne as well as a transwoman, I don't believe I've ever "crammed my status" down anyone's throat. I also don't *expect* others to understand why it is that I present myself as a woman, even though I don't necessarily speak or behave like most women.

Maybe my life and circumstances are somehow non-typical and out-of-whack with the rest of the world, but for the most part cisgendered people seem to be very tolerant of me and generally find me quite approachable. As a matter of fact, it's not at all uncommon for people I meet to open up and share their own stories of gender confusion and/or dissatisfaction with me. It's actually very interesting and enlightening.

Ironically, it's also been my experience that the people most bothered by (and least tolerant of) my gender ambiguity tend to be my fellow transpeople. :(

I wonder if that's how it is for Thomas too. <_<

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Posted

but most of what you describe...this today, that tomorrow, something different the following day...in my opinion falls in the category of the "gender outlaw," the transgender individual who is hell-bent on cramming not only his/her TG/TS status down everyone's throats, but also goes about his/her gender bending seemingly expecting everyone to accept and understand that which would be, for the most part, not even accepted or understood in the non-TG/TS world. it seems the gender outlaw is out to intentionally confound and confuse, and takes "out loud and proud" to an uber-extreme.

despite the fact that many of us dislike labels, boundaries and intolerances...they are a fact of life. there are maximum tolerances in any situation. example, a rubber band -depending on it's size- can be stretched quite a ways. but there comes a point where it can be stretched no further...and if one continues to try to get more out of it, it will eventually break. this same analogy can be applied to men and women, be they cisgender or transgender, straight or gay, and the society in which they live. one can go only so far until society says..."enough is enough."

-michael

Are you sure you're not perhaps taking these generalized statements to an uber-extreme, Michael? ;)

I do not identify as an "outlaw" regarding my gender, and although I do frequently mention on this board that I am an androgyne as well as a transwoman, I don't believe I've ever "crammed my status" down anyone's throat. I also don't *expect* others to understand why it is that I present myself as a woman, even though I don't necessarily speak or behave like most women.

Maybe my life and circumstances are somehow non-typical and out-of-whack with the rest of the world, but for the most part cisgendered people seem to be very tolerant of me and generally find me quite approachable. As a matter of fact, it's not at all uncommon for people I meet to open up and share their own stories of gender confusion and/or dissatisfaction with me. It's actually very interesting and enlightening.

Ironically, it's also been my experience that the people most bothered by (and least tolerant of) my gender ambiguity tend to be my fellow transpeople. :(

I wonder if that's how it is for Thomas too. <_<

Shannon, I agree with you on this. I am confused now because I also understand Michael's point of view. Yet, I still believe that tolerance, diversity, variety, accepting people's unique appearance and behaviour are lovely qualities to have for ALL people. I agree with Shannon that transsexual women are the least tolerant of how I present myself, act and feel like. Many MTF's think I am not a good transwoman because I have feelings and desires that they consider unnatural for a transwoman. I have tried to make friends with transwomen here in South-East Asia (I am momentarily working on a project overhere), a society that appears to be very tolerant of transwomen, androgyne people, butch lesbians, transmen, and feminine gay men and children. However, I kept being criticised by these local transwomen as they feel I am just not feminine and sexy enough in the way I dress, behave and feel sexually. Though I was initially friendly with of a group of transwomen here, they decided to cast me out and I felt very hurt. I ended up with the gay guys overhere, both masculine and feminine and versatile gay men. I was surprised that they are all so nice to me. It is they who keep asking me to join their parties and get togethers. They take me out to clubs etc. First of all I am surprised because most of them are about 30 to 40 years younger than I am. They compliment me, show interest in me, ask me all kinds of questions and they even protect me.

I am not going into details here, as I don't want to be sexually explicit on this site, but last weekend I was invited to join a group of those gay guys to a hi-so afterparty. I told them I sometimes had fantasies about having sex as a male with another male but that my female body wouldn't allow to act upon those feelings. First they assumed that I meant that I fantasized about acting as a feminine gay man from time to time, and then I explained that my fantasies were actually quite the opposite. Now I don't have much experience with gay afterparties and what these guys do at such events so I was surprised about what happened later that night. But let's say that it became a sexual event and I was even more baffled by the fact that I was encouraged by these beautiful young men to actively participate and live out my fantasies together with them. Now that is something I would call wonderful tolerant behaviour. Not only did they not care about my age, they were even helpful and willing to make me feel better about myself, to allow me to experience things I have never experienced before and even cross their own bounderies by doing things they would normally not consider doing, especially not with a woman. So this is what triggered my ideas of accepting anyone's unique feelings and behaviour. If they can accept me, help me, love me, give me pleasure, why not my own brothers and sisters?

I think Thomas did a great thing. I agree with Shannon. I was surprised by Annie's reaction to my post on the drag king-thing. I also respect, accept and understand Michael's ideas and I think he writes beautifully about his own ideas and feelings and he is very eloquent. However, I like it that I make an effort to understand and accept and respect and be fascinated by anyone's unique way of feeling, loving, and acting, no matter whether they do it in their own house, a club, on TV, or right in front of my face. I don't mind diversity, I actually encourage it. I think this is the way to create happy people. Non-transsexual and non-gay people are also human beings with their own unique behaviour and feelings and they expect us to tolerate and understand them too. So it is up to US to change the norm and help THEM develop feelings of tolerance toward the diversity and uniqueness of all the members in our Queer Club. Before non-transgender and non-gay people can tolerate, respect and love us, we should first tolerate, respect and love the diversity of the members in our own club.

Patricia

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