Pope Says Planet Needs to be Saved from Gays and Transsexuals

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Likening homosexual and transsexual behavior to the environmental crisis, Pope Benedict XVI in a year-end address to senior Vatican staff, said that saving humanity from homosexual or transsexual behavior was as important as protecting the environment, according to a BBCNews report .

Defending God's creation was not limited to saving the environment, the Pope reportedly said, but also about protecting man from himself.

Full article:

http://www.gaywired.com/Article.cfm?ID=21239

On YouTube:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HWOWG_K1eg4

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Likening homosexual and transsexual behavior to the environmental crisis, Pope Benedict XVI in a year-end address to senior Vatican staff, said that saving humanity from homosexual or transsexual behavior was as important as protecting the environment, according to a BBCNews report .

Defending God's creation was not limited to saving the environment, the Pope reportedly said, but also about protecting man from himself.

http://www.gaywired.com/Article.cfm?ID=21239

And we are all so concerned as to whether we still receive acceptance when people such as Thomas Beatie go on TV. I think there are a lot of CIS-people that need to clean up their act as they embarrass the Bloody Jesus out of more open-minded CIS-people.

I was baptised a Roman Catholic in The House Of The Holy Lord And The Jesus Christ Hanging From The Cross, but when that fine Pope from Italy is having tea with me next time, I will give him a good spanking first and shuff something big and hard straight up his holy butt. Can't believe that in 2008 people of such stature can still get away with politically incorrect ideas. Shame, shame, shame. There is a worldly truth and a universal truth, and if God hears how his earthly representatives make a mockery out of his universal truth, oy, there will be a few people burning in hell, the Pope himself will act as the forever flaming torch. Kathy Griffin was right. SUCK IT JESUS, this is my god now (I'm holding up a Buddha statue).

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And we are all so concerned as to whether we still receive acceptance when people such as Thomas Beatie go on TV. I think there are a lot of CIS-people that need to clean up their act as they embarrass the Bloody Jesus out of more open-minded CIS-people.

I was baptised a Roman Catholic in the house of Holy Lord, but when that fine Pope from Italy is having tea with me next time, I will give him a good spanking first and shuff something big and hard straight up his holy butt. Can't believe that in 2008 people of such stature can still get away with politically incorrect ideas. Shame, shame, shame. There is a worldly truth and a universal truth, and if God hears how his earthly representatives make a mockery out of his universal truth, oy, there will be a few people burning in hell, the Pope himself will act as the forever flaming torch. Kathy Griffin was right. SUCK IT JESUS, this is my god now (I'm holding up a Buddha statue).

I think the pope needs to just STFU.

...after all, it's not our fault he does such tacky drag. :lol::P:lol:

As far as gays and transsexuals being a threat to the planet... Oh my! :o I'm real curious to hear how the hell that's supposed to work. <_<

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[

I think the pope needs to just STFU.

...after all, it's not our fault he does such tacky drag. :lol::P:lol:

As far as gays and transsexuals being a threat to the planet... Oh my! :o I'm real curious to hear how the hell that's supposed to work. <_<

I am not really into agressive speech, but when it comes to the Pope and those fine Catholics and their child-f*ckers they really stir up my emotions, I can't help myself. Yesterday we had a good laugh watching Kathy Griffin on Catholics on Youtube. I laughed so hard, I almost ruptured the mucus membrane in my private parts beyond repair.

Yeah, what else can we do than feel compassion for the Pope and pray for a fast recovery of his mental sanity. But if he's having tea with me, I will step on his red gay Prada boots, ask my son to pierce his nipples and freanulum, while I lubricate that large golden cross he uses as a walking aid, and shuff it straight up his rectum until it knocks out his vocal cords.

God created humankind in Her image. I hold that to be true. God blesses us all, as we all represent every aspect of what God considers Itself to be.

Seeking CIS-people's approval so desperately, I wonder how long and what it will take before CIS will start asking LGBT for their approval. You know, in the past and still in certain societies, people like us were/are considered half-gods, shamans, people considered being above all that is human.

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I just wish the Catholic Church would finish the job of discrediting itself... and quietly go the way of the dodo. :D

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I just wish the Catholic Church would finish the job of discrediting itself... and quietly go the way of the dodo. :D

Very funny, Shannon.

Yes, that would be a good idea. It's just like with great artists who aren't what they used to be and bring about a feeling of pitty and embarrassement. One of my idols, Liza Minnelli, stunned me with a perfect live performance in 1991 when I was in her audience. But recently in Sweden she was so over the hill and totally drunk, that at the end of her performance, the poor girl actually fell off the stage straight into the wings and couldn't return to receive her luke warm applause. Everybody in the audience blushed and felt embarrassed. So what does it take for the Catholic followers to be embarrassed beyond belief that they'll start to distance themselves from their Church. If my Buddhist leader says something that excludes me from being part of his club, I'll be the first one to reprimand him and become an "anti-My-Buddhist-Leader-activist-cum-agressivist. So far he says it's okay to be gay so I love him.

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No, actually I really don't expect many of the faithful to fall away from their faith. People don't like to be told that what they believe in is wrong. They also don't like being told that they've been deceived. Unfortunately, I think more often than not such ugly truths merely lead to people entrenching themselves even deeper in their beliefs in an effort to save face.

That's too bad about Liza Minelli. She was very much an idol of mine when I was a kid.

I just wish the Catholic Church would finish the job of discrediting itself... and quietly go the way of the dodo. :D

Very funny, Shannon.

Yes, that would be a good idea. It's just like with great artists who aren't what they used to be and bring about a feeling of pitty and embarrassement. One of my idols, Liza Minnelli, stunned me with a perfect live performance in 1991 when I was in her audience. But recently in Sweden she was so over the hill and totally drunk, that at the end of her performance, the poor girl actually fell off the stage straight into the wings and couldn't return to receive her luke warm applause. Everybody in the audience blushed and felt embarrassed. So what does it take for the Catholic followers to be embarrassed beyond belief that they'll start to distance themselves from their Church. If my Buddhist leader says something that excludes me from being part of his club, I'll be the first one to reprimand him and become an "anti-My-Buddhist-Leader-activist-cum-agressivist. So far he says it's okay to be gay so I love him.

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Jeeze. I disagree with a lot of things the pope says, but I don't think I can advocate your plan of action, Patricia. But at least you had the mercy to use lube. :/

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I was born into and raised Catholic and even went to Catholic grammer school but haven't been apart of the Catholic faith since then.The pope actually helps to prove my point about religion and how hypocritcal it can be.That's why I wrote Wolves in Sheep Clothings to begin with back in 2005.It's apart of my first blog entry as well.

Dee

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I was born into and raised Catholic and even went to Catholic grammer school but haven't been apart of the Catholic faith since then.The pope actually helps to prove my point about religion and how hypocritcal it can be.That's why I wrote Wolves in Sheep Clothings to begin with back in 2005.It's apart of my first blog entry as well.

Dee

Good for you.

My mother was a Catholic and went to a Catholic school and church, just like me, but when I turned out to be a transsexual it became clear that the Catholic church and the Vatican didn't support equal rights for queer people (I don't think they mentioned the T-word back then), my mother decided to keep very quiet about her Catholicism. Before she died we all assumed she wanted to be burried on a Catholic churchyard in London, but to our surprise her last wish was to be cremated and put in a wall at a public cemetary in Jakarta.

I have been discussing religion with my children. I've got 11 of them, believe it or not, a very Catholic number I'd say. Over the years I have adopted them from various countries. They weren't all small children when they joined my family. The oldest at the time was 14, now 44. They are from Mainland China, Indonesia, the Philipines, Thailand, Papua NG and Australia. My oldest son is from the USA, a Cherokee-boy who works closely with me. Some of my children are atheists, one is a Christian, two are muslims and they are serious about their beliefs in the Q'ran. Most of them I raised as Buddhists, but half of them don't care. We don't celebrate Christmas together but we always get together for Western New Year. My boyfriend, a Communist, and I are now staying on a small Thai island. We expect the whole family to be together soon (all of them) with their partners and children. Some have already flown in or are going to fly in from the various countries they now live in. Most of them live in the USA, a few live in Thailand and my youngest son is studying in Beijing. And throughout the years we have proven that it is possible for all of us to look different, to have different faiths, speak different languages, and yet share a great love and respect for each other in one united family. But they know: don't mention the Pope-word when Mom is around..... because she will try to insert religious objects in his orifices.

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Goodness budda didnt teach that I'm sure insertum rectum isn't that a catholic saying (LOL) take it to the limit and then cross the line I dont advocate the things that have been said but I do agree to a point they preach one thing and act in a completely diffrent way..Suppose thats why I have no faith in faith They lie to those who will follow inorder to enhance their coffers this is a fact and is what the church was set into buesness to accomplish faith is in all of us we are all moral beings set with certain traits evolution has tought us rite from wrong just from injust our bodies are our temples to deface them with lies of religion is a travasty in my belief ....the thing that I have found to be true in most all religions is that love of the fellow man be held in the highest regard I think many religions have forgoten this and taken it to the next level we'll love all if they will believe in the redarick you spout if not then let them all fall to the wayside and perish ....go figure the darkages are still amung us wether or not we want to believe this or not.. I also agree with kathy I yelled good for you when I heard it...F them all god had nothing to do with it he(she) just like us is both and all things...takes no side with mortal mans doing or undoing ever heard of Free Will we do what we do and say what we say Politicly correct is a B/S cop out I cant believe that we have to touchy felly around what we say I have my oppinions and you yours thank god for that I'm not a lemming following the pack to my death off the edge of a cliff I set my ways as to my internal compas maybe he's an ignorant bstrd but he feels as he feels hell maybe he's just puppeting what the church told him to say maybe he thinks screw it I dont care and niether should any of the rest of the planet who knows for sure but one thing is sure like thomas he's gona do whatever his compas says to do...morally right or wrong....OOOOOHHHHMMMM takes deep breath holds and release much better sorry for the rant love to all this season...may it bring you joy and happiness

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First and foremost, let me say, I am a pretty live and let live person, but the Religious Right (and some of the religious left) really get my blood boiled; not as much as it used to and it gets better each day, but still. Being a relatively conservative person who isn't keen on abortion, polygamy, or this new 'nuclear family' where the kids raise themselves and the parents treat them more like pets, feeding and giving shelter and that's about it, I can say that the religion zealots of ALL religion camps kill me. I really loved Kevin Smith's 'Dogma,' minor blasphemies and disrespect to Jesus and God aside, simply because the overall point was NOT to bash God, nor faith, but rather the institution of organized religion.

I'll admit, and we all gotta face it someday, there are rules and we need morals and standards to keep us from being totally barbaric, complete animals, or totally selfish wretches. That also said tho, I don't see how someone who ISNT affecting another's life directly by their life choices, can be so darn testy over it. I'm pretty darn sure though that 99.99999% of those who espouse God as the reason are merely scapegoating their own issues of intolerance. I find its easier, and more respectable to just be up front about it. I know myself, I can't stand drag culture. Its only my opinion mind you. However, I'm not going to go dig up passages in the Koran, or the Bible, or some other ancient tome, and cite some obscure and even further obscured 'point' that speaks out against it in the weakest of ways, as a litmus test proof that it is wrong. I'll just tell them flat out that I feel drag culture is offensive to women, trans women especially, and that the entire concept, again all IMHO, is deeply rooted in sexual depravity and a need to be an exhibitionist about the most sexual aspects of a woman's sense of self, but given a good shove over the top with influence of man's fantasy of female sexuality. Will this peeve people off? Sure it will, but at least I'm honest. These religious individuals don't merely say 'I disagree with it cause its odd to me,' no, they take the coward's way out. They say things like 'I don't like it, but I'm not the one sending you to hell, God is!' BS I say. Afterall, isn't it true that we all are just as clueless as the next as to what God's *final* word will be regarding each and every one of us.

The part of this that truly saddens me, and please, understand this is all my own opinions on faith and such, so I am not speaking as if this is fact that others must accept, rather just what I know in my own heart and faith. Its saddening that, because people espouse hate from the great ivory tower of self-ascribed perfection, yet can't do so honestly, and rather, scapegoat religion and pass the blame onto the very being they claim they worship for their creation. Basically saying 'oh yea, God called, and he said knock it off, he hates fags, and you aren't allowed to hang out later if you don't stop. Don't shoot me, I'm the messenger.

(I can't help but think of the scene in Joe Dirt when his girlfriend tells the jerk (kid rock) that she's going to find his parents but not to tell him, but, instead, the jerk changes the letter to basically say she wants him gone; more or less scapegoating his own desires and feelings as the wishes of someone who actually matters to david spade's character.) The reason this stinks is, reread your posts if you posted here. Even if you aren't Christian, Catholic, or hell, of *ANY* religion, look at the knee jerk reaction such hate gets. We attack back which, as they say, leaves us both 'blind.' The answer is not to destroy the concept of faith, or even the foundation of religion, but, rather, to condemn the haters, not the group they are a member of. After all, if you find one racist baseball player, would that mean they all were and we should boycott the sport? Of course not.

I'm not saying anyone needs to change religion or even accept it as truth, but I do hope, after the anger passes, we can reread what we've wrote about others, be it their religion, or otherwise, and decide if we were *also* being disrespectful. Again, much like I tell people about me being trans:

You don't need to believe it, you don't need to understand it, hell you don't even have to accept it if you don't want to, but I DO ask you still respect my right to it.

Christianity, sadly, is not represented correctly by the people who claim to represent it. It is a beautiful religion that is accepting, and, in my own faith, one where all are accepted in the collective of true peace after this life, regardless of their actions here on Earth.

That said, I feel for the Pope. I do not think he hates variance, but he is clinging to certain old laws, knowingly ignoring other laws that are quite literally RIGHT NEXT to the ones of gender and orientation laid out in the Holy Bible. Also, I do think its not the people he is speaking out against, but the sad consequence of some trans/homosexual behavior.

Now, not all homosexuals are club hounds, dancing in booty shorts and shoving their sexuality in other's faces. However, MANY do. That, no matter who you are, *IS* a problem. I believe that is what he is speaking out against truely. Also the degradation of the family unit is a concern as well. While many trans and homosexuals have great marriages or unions that function just as any cisgendered, straight couple does (some even better,) many are in that lifestyle from a self serving point; never looking to 'give' but rather just take in anything they can, which, as a consequence, takes more from society than brings to the table.

None of these issues are black and white, but the thing we must be careful of is to be too touchy. There are MANY problems that exist only, or at least moreso, in homosexual culture. Also in trans culture. That does NOT mean that we *all* should be punished, but it does also mean we should be aware that some might not 'know any better.' For example:

My father is an awesome man that, despite still having issue with me being trans, is insanely supportive, and a very kind and accepting man. 10 years ago, he, as he said so eloquently:

'I hated fags, I thought they were dirty; diseased. I thought they wanted to convert young, impressionable boys. I thought they only wanted sex and attention. Now, sure, for a lot, that is true 110% However, for a lot as well, it is not. Tell ya the truth, as a working adult, I don't run into those irresponsible types of homosexuals. Every gay person I've met in my professional life is just as normal as the next, they just happen to like the same gender. Its different, sure, but if they aren't causing problems for people, who cares?!'

This is pure proof that, yes, society, given time to digest and differentiate the bad 'acts' from the cultures they come from can in turn lead to acceptance. Its the same as knowing not all Muslims are terrorists or that not all Jewish people count their money when they are bored lol.

Just think about some of the things that have been said in response to this. I know the Pope has offended MANY MANY people due to this comment, but, we should be classier than that than to bother giving him, or anyone for that matter, the same crap back to them. After all, acceptance comes from compromise, not from forcefulness.

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11 Patrica wow you do have a full plate.My folks had 9 of us,2 who unfortunately never got the chance to live.One before birth and one shortly after.Your family shows how diversity isn't a bad thing.

As for my comments about religion,I merely point out how many are hypocritcal to what they say they believe.The bible points out one can not have two masters so how can someone expect others to think and believe in a simlar manner if their serving a master of love but serving one of hate as well.They are contrary to one another.Thus giving others the impression that love is conditional.Where as true love is unconditional.

Yes their has to be a basic moral code everyone should follow but it should be based on basic human decency towards one another not any one organizational or personnal belief of they perceive it to be.

Ashlee you say

"I can't stand drag culture. Its only my opinion mind you. However, I'm not going to go dig up passages in the Koran, or the Bible, or some other ancient tome, and cite some obscure and even further obscured 'point' that speaks out against it in the weakest of ways, as a litmus test proof that it is wrong. I'll just tell them flat out that I feel drag culture is offensive to women, trans women especially, and that the entire concept, again all IMHO, is deeply rooted in sexual depravity and a need to be an exhibitionist about the most sexual aspects of a woman's sense of self, but given a good shove over the top with influence of man's fantasy of female sexuality."

Your opinion is your opinion and I respect that.However,I have to ask why you do you think drag culture is demeaming and offensive to women?Everyone has a masculine and feminine side.Some merely are willing and able to express it.Do you think that transwomen who aren't in the open and live their public life appearing as men are demeaning and offensive to men?Or that transmen who live the same are doing the samething to women?By pretending to appear and act as they do.

As I said I respect your opinion and how you feel.It's who you are.But just like everyone else if you hope and expect others to accept you for who you are and how you feel,how can you,if your not willing to do the same.

Your comment,being your own suggests that all women or men for that matter find drag offensive to them.Just like respect,acceptance has to be given if one expects or hopes to recieve it.

Dee

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Dee, I understand your point, and I think maybe I didn't make mine clear really. Again, you claim if I ask for acceptance, I accept as well. For me, someone being overtly sexual is a tad offensive. That said, I don't think drag shows should be shut down or stopped. I know *alot* of drag queens and kings enjoy it merely for that same reprieve I mentioned earlier or simply because its genuine fun to them. My two issues were the objectification of women (drag queens) compared to say, drag kings; as well as the overtly sexual overtones of the whole culture.

Like I said, feeling that something is offensive to you or, to be more kind, 'simply not for you,' I don't think is a problem. Meaning, I don't mind if people say my religion is a fairy tale or any of these other absolutes that openly detract from what i believe. I respect their opinion, but I also know that most people are avoidant of religion usually because of its exclusionary undertones. So I don't necessarily speak from the point of 'respect my beliefs,' as much as I come from the position of 'we haven't *all* lost the true message of love and, faithful or not, not all of us are so quick to damn another for being different.

That really sums up what I meant about drag culture. As for the demeaning to women position, its the over the top theme that kills me. These men in drag are dolled up to the point of being characterizations of women; usually related to the overall male fantasy of the 'ideal woman.' Now, you do see *some* relatively tasteful shows, but to me the whole act seems vain, self serving, sexual in undertoned nature (due to the queens looking like characters of femininity in the most extreme of ways, almost stereotypically.) Again, I am not sayng they are 'evil' or bad, or that I would act any different if I were to find out a friend of mine was into that whole scene. Basically, sure, I'm a girl. However, sadly, I'm biologically male. So, regardless to how feminine I may or may not look to others, its always compared to 'drag queens' or at least considered to be of similar situation. I guess it's just distressing to me, trying to find where I belong in life, which is difficult without this issue even, and its frustrating when such a culture seemingly detracts from trans individuals, leading many to not know the differentiation between the two.

Honestly, like I said, I could care less if drag shows went on forever. They aren't for me, so I won't be there, but if people enjoy it, and no one is getting hurt, I see no harm and they should be free to express themselves any way they wish. I guess I can just tell you that some of the resentment (which is a harsher word than I'd like to use since it isn't quite so severe) toward drag culture is that idea that women *must* be a certain mold. Like I said, I'm the furthest thing from the Malibu Barbie and Susie Homemaker oven kind of girl, but I still am who I am. I just think that the drag queen side of things is just so out of proportion and over the top glam that it almost makes women look laughably vain and hollow.

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Like I said, feeling that something is offensive to you or, to be more kind, 'simply not for you,' I don't think is a problem. Meaning, I don't mind if people say my religion is a fairy tale or any of these other absolutes that openly detract from what i believe. I respect their opinion, but I also know that most people are avoidant of religion usually because of its exclusionary undertones.

I do not avoid religion because it is exclusionary; I reject organized religion because it promotes misogyny, homophobia, xenophobia and hate. Organized religion also tends to encourage apathy regarding working towards real peace, tolerance and a better future because hey, Jesus is coming back pretty soon and the bible says he's gonna fix everything. Of course, in order for Jesus to fix everything we first have to have a huge global war that covers the earth in blood, then god has to chuck all of the non-believers into a lake of fire where they'll burn forever and ever. :o

Apparently God's glorious plan works a lot like Tyler Durden's glorious plan: "If ya wanna make an omelette ya gotta break some eggs". <_<

I just think that the drag queen side of things is just so out of proportion and over the top glam that it almost makes women look laughably vain and hollow.

I fail to see how drag queens could possibly "make women look laughably vain and hollow"... unless one held a negative and inferior view of women to begin with (many fine examples of which can be drawn directly from the Old Testament of the Bible). :P And no, I'm not saying you feel this way, Ashlee, but I did find your comment bizarre and a little bit disturbing.

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as i have always said god is a side line coach yells and no one hears jumps up and down and no one see's but when things go right everyone jumps on the band wagon....Listen you are who you are and you are going to make mistakes misteps and blunders but we all do this we are only human we make our lifes as we make them god isn't interested in these things we do supposably he gave his son to give us eternal life with him...I dont know about this but One thing I do know I live and I die....So while I'm on this planet I will live my life to its fullest If this means learning about others the good the bad and the ugly I will learn from them I will take these knowledges to the grave unless I can reason through them and pass my knowledge on to the next generation will they listen who knows only they who will be open to the information will If they learn these facts they will be more open to those who only want to be who they are and be let in piece..we are only here for a short time to harbor ill towards others is a passing of pressious time we dont have...So ladys gentalmen look listen learn from others dont judge dont hate dont dispise others all I ask is take the infomation you learn and move on in this life teach others the resect we all want and need they will eventually become part of a world that is more reseptive to the choices of others....Isnt that really what we all want....

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I wasn't saying anyone in particular, or even that the sole reason was religion's exclusivity. Rather, I meant more along what you had said; that organized religion tends to take a 'this is the 'right' way to do things, if you do it any different, you're doomed. Hence, by being homophobic, sexist and even xenophobic of other beliefs in some religions, its basically that exclusive mentality (if you aren't with us, you're against us) that I was trying to point out.

As for the comment about Drag Queens, not that you were trying to, but every person who's gotten upset about my opinions on that does the same junk right wing talk radio does. They claim that the displeasure of something is because one already holds a negative view of it. Basically, saying in this case, that if I find the idea of straight, relatively cisgendered men, dressing up in sexy things, THINKING that that is somehow exactly how femininity works (just get sexy, which, by my opinion, on men does NOT look anywhere *near* 'sexy.') I dont have a negative view of women, quite the opposite. Basically what my issue is primarily is that the whole thing is rooted in baseless, meaningless sexual expression merely for almost an exhibitionist-like need to be 'out and loud.' Like I said, I think people should be free to do that, but I still think its not only stupid, but really sexist. I am a woman, for example. I, however, am not:

A:

A clown. Yes, I wear makeup. Yes, its noticable. However, I am not some over the top, skanky looking person who prances and trots around in night gowns. Not a single woman I've ever met, trans or otherwise, has ever had that 'desire' nor that 'need.' Again, I'm not saying they cannot do it, I support their right to it. However, these 'queens,' they think they are just getting in touch with femininity. They aren't. Its basically an exhibitionist exercise in glam culture, where the goal is to be the loudest, sparkliest, most over the top stereotyical example of feminine 'look.' I guess I just personally find the exhibitionist angle to be wholly annoying, and the fact that they say its 'wrong' and 'closed minded' for trans people to want to be differentiated from them. I'm sorry, but they aren't anything like myself or many trans women I know, so why should I just sit there and let the world assume we're all the same, simply for the sake of being PC?

After all, we need tolerance, not blanket acceptance. One can disagree with a person's choice, yet still believe in their right to make that choice on their own. That's where Im coming from. That aside, I see nothing bizarre or disturbing about my comments. As I said, they are all opinion and I feel, personally, I neither misrepresented, nor wrongly cited anything about drag culture.

Afterall, I'm a normal girl trying to just get by in life as happily and peacefully as possible, I'm not trying to get the world to stare, and I feel that when people see drag culture, they will pair it up with trans culture, and the two couldn't be further apart in my own opinion.

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Afterall, I'm a normal girl trying to just get by in life as happily and peacefully as possible, I'm not trying to get the world to stare, and I feel that when people see drag culture, they will pair it up with trans culture, and the two couldn't be further apart in my own opinion.

this is all I am saying also I make no excusses for others actions only my own...I am a woman nothing more I look like this by what I think is gods cruel joke to see what I make of it so to him/her (cause god is all things not just one) I accept this challenge and I will make it through with my witts intact I will fight to the end and try to teach a few on the way ashlee my dear you teach me all the time So thanks I meant no Ill toward you if you took it in a confronting way...I have always said on here that you either know or you are not those are the facts wether or not these old tturkey necks in the vatican can grasp this fact that we are who god made us so they need to stop look at their teachings and get with the program trust me I think that 99.99999% of them are going to continue repeating the kindergarden stage of life for quite some time as for me I hope to graduate with honors......LOVE the interactions

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Hi Ashlee, When I said I thought your comment was bizarre and disturbing I was referring specifically to your comment that the campy behavior and appearance of drag queens somehow "makes women look laughably vain and hollow". I guess I just find it difficult to comprehend how and why so many people feel that the identity or choices of one group can be so easily threatened by the appearance or actions of members of another group. I hear things like homosexuality is bad for marriage and the family, transgendered sex workers (read: shemales) make real transsexuals look bad, and now I'm hearing that the drag queens are bad for women...?

Regardless of whether these ideas originate here on this message board, in the mainstream press, or in the pulpit they are generally negative, politically-motivated statements and are intended to appeal to people's gut emotional responses. Such statements also tend to be backed up by anecdotal stories, personal beliefs, group think or the ever-convenient *will of god* in lieu of any kind of scientific evidence.

If someone makes the mistake of thinking I'm a drag queen (or a shemale or a space alien or anything else that I'm not) I'll kindly correct them if they ask me about it. On the other hand, if they just make an assumption and quietly form--and hold to--an erroneous opinion, well, one doesn't learn much in the world that way and that's their problem, not mine. Of course, if one is successfully stealth then they've no need not worry about any of it, but if one is not stealth it's probably better to be ready to shed some light on incorrect assumptions and answer some questions than to wish some other group would just disappear or fall silent.

Personally, I'm not into drag culture either. But I'm not going to pretend that I don't like drag culture because it is somehow bad for women (or anyone else). It is simply a matter of taste - and that's all it is. :)

~Shannon

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As you know I have construction company. In September we started working on a new beach resort 10 km south of Pattaya in Thailand. Pattaya is a place known for its sex-industry and high number of transgender prostitutes and drag queen show girls. Being a “conservative” woman my jaw dropped the first night I was confronted with all those “gender-benders and outlaws”. Practically everyone in this town is in some way related to the sex-and-show-industry. I went to see a show at Alcazar’s, and I thought the girls very pretty, with lots of feathers and all very sexy and glamorous and over the top. Not one second I felt I had something in common with them, and nor did any of my colleagues who know that I am a transsexual. I don’t feel offended by drag queens, or transgender prostitutes. I thought it was all very interesting and entertaining.

I actually met my new boyfriend in this town. He’s a Chinese subcontractor and he liked me so much that we started dating. Many of the real estate projects in Asia are in hands of Chinese companies, I myself am a Chinese with a Canadian passport.

Soon someone asked my boyfriend whether I was a transsexual. I hadn’t had a chance to tell him earlier. He was shocked, surprised but accepted. Not one minute he thought I must be like one of those drag queens that walk around in Pattaya. If he walks next to me, he doesn’t fear that someone else thinks he is walking around with a drag queen, even if people know that I am a transsexual. It is here that I am open about my transsexualism. It doesn’t seem to matter. I think it is okay for men to dress up in over the top garments with feathers. If they enjoy that, then they must do so, and I don’t think it gives us post or pre-op transsexuals a bad reputation. There are many Russian men in this town as well as many low-class, drunk, bad-behaving western cispeople walking around with their Thai prostitutes and compensated daters (both male and female or other genders) who all come from Isaan-province in North-East Thailand, a very, very poor province where people have difficulty to survive. It’s easy for people to criticize others, but I am aware that for the poor souls it is all about survival. I thank God I was more fortunate and that I don’t have to make my money that way. I realize that very much when I stick my card in the door of my five-star hotel room.

This is my last construction project. I’m 59 now and I want to retire. My oldest son and two of my daughters are going to take over the company. And to come back to the Pope who feels that people like us are a threat to the existence of humanity, I think I do want to have tea with him and have a talk. Because I would say: I provided a home to 11 orphans and children that were abandoned by their parents. Some were abandoned for the fact that they were girls. One of my Thai children, a boy, was in the care of a Catholic church in Bangkok and needed therapy for many years because he was sexually abused by a priest for years. I took him away, fixed him and sent him to school. Now he is 32 and has a successful business based in Bangkok with a branch in Hong Kong. I have one Thai daughter who is deaf. Ten years ago I set up a school and dormitory for deaf and blind Thai children. I adopted a few children from an orphanage in China. Then I bought the orphanage and build a school next to it.

I was able to send 9 out of 11 children to university, the other two had other plans for their future. One is a model, the other one a stay-at-home mother. I have 17 grandchildren and a trust fund not only for my 11 children but also for my grandchildren, so when I die, everyone will be taken care of. Apart from that, over the last 40 years I have given jobs to thousands of people and set up a foundation to financially support over 8 charities that I believe in.

So I wonder if the pope still thinks that somehow I’ll go to hell and that I am a threat to humanity. O, he might say: but I am not thinking about people like you: I just think about all those bad people who have sex in dark rooms or dress up with feathers on their heads. And then I would say: how do you know about those things, dear Pope? Have you carefully observed and studied those people and questioned yourself what they are really all about. Don’t you feel compassion for people in general?

In the early 90s the Dalai Lama visited San Francisco and was asked by the gay leaders what he thought of gay people. The Dalai Lama was surprised to hear about homosexuality, he never had any ideas about that concept. He made an initial statement, then was pointed out by his aids that he shouldn’t jump to conclusions and think about it first. So he retreated and reappeared the next day with a statement that it was okay to be gay because every person has the right to find enlightenment in his own manner.

This is the last thing I can contribute this week. I am back on mainland for a few hours before I return to my family on an island in the Thai Gulf where there is no wireless signal to use my computer.

I wish everyone a great New Year. Patricia

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I can see Ashlee's point, though. How are drag performances any better than those minstrel shows where white actors used to paint their faces black and act like white people's stereotypes of black people?

Theater in which men dress as women can be tastefully done, but with drag shows, unfortunately, this is not the case.

As for the original topic, I take the pope about as seriously as I would take [insert your least favorite politician's name here].

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Ashle you said "Its basically an exhibitionist exercise in glam culture, where the goal is to be the loudest, sparkliest, most over the top stereotyical example of feminine 'look.' I guess I just personally find the exhibitionist angle to be wholly annoying,"

I agree with what you said about some being exhibitionist.There are some merely wanting to draw attention to themselves,more or less shoving it in other peoples faces.Which isn't a good way to bring knowledge and understanding to society.But drag shows are in the confines of a building which all who enter know what's going on and most know the difference betwwen drag and transsexual.

A daughter of an in-law of mine transitioned years ago but when I encountered her she was still in the early stages.By the way she acted (at least back then,I don't know about now) you'd have to say she was an exhibitionist.Always having to be the center of attention and if no one said anything to her about things she must of felt compelled to say something.

Granted her behavoir wasn't and isn't the norm for us but unless someone asked her one wouldn't have known if she was a cross-dresser or transsexual.Dispite how one acts in public,unless your a 100% passable others will assume your either one or the other.So unless you are 100% passable their will always be someone wondering about you.Not that theirs many but some women do dress and act the way some cross-dressers do.

My point is,you shouldn't judge and assume things just because how one appears or necessarily by their behavoir.How many of us put up a false front in order to feel a bit of strength and security within.How everyone else appears or behaves has no barring on who I am.

Unfortunately it seems the pope feels that way considering his comment.He should look within his own house and know better then to have made the comment he did.He knows none of us are perfect.

Dee

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When it comes to drag performers there are deffinitely those who approach it with a minstral show mentality. They are essentially crass caricactures of women, and those performances can be denegrating. But most of the drag shows I have seen are either very tounge-in-cheek or they come from a more sincere place. For many drag performers I think that what they do allows them to express a side of themselves that is repressed in there daily lives. Many drag queens grew up idealising female performers and movie starts, and aspire to the same type of glamour and elegance as people like Cher and Madona. Similarly, many butch women grew up idealising men, and hyper macho stage personas allow them to express that side of there personality. For most I have known drag is about fantasy fufillment. They have a sertain notion of glamor or theatrics which is unfortunately reserved for the opposute sex.

There is also the satirical side of drag, which serves to make fun of sexism and rigid gender roles. This type of drag is especially important in the gay and lesbian community where many peoples behavior goes against gender expectations.

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I don't know much at all about the catholic religion, (personally I think most religions are stupid) but from what I understand, aren't catholic priests not allowed to marry and have sex? forgive me if i'm wrong but the pope is saying that Homosexuality and Transgender doesn't support evolution becuase they don't have kids natrually... how exactly does not allowing catholic priests to have sex support it? lol

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Katie beutiful sumation on the facts yes they do require celabacy but I also think they are becoming more leanient on this fact I know I read about it some where not sure and not when might of been a few years ago...haha Kind of a catch twentytwo for them if you look at it that way... :lol:

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