Emma,

I'm so sorry you had to go through that! It's horrible to be confronted like that in any situation, but especially in a group therapy session that should be supportive. I hope Susan can do something to resolve it in a fully satisfactory way.

Personally, I can certainly understand the desire to understand why Pamela did what she did, but it might just lead to greater frustration since you can never be sure unless she tells you. If she's already prone to be like that it might have been made worse by something going on in her life. I don't mean to suggest that as an excuse, it's not, but a possible explanation.

I think the most important thing to remember is that whatever it was, it was on her and you shouldn't internalize it (and believe me, I know that's easier said than done, i'be let myself feel hurt over far less incidemts).

At least you have this space as an alternate venue, certainly not a substitute for in person meetings, but it's somewhere to turn.

XOXO

Christie

Thank you, Christie. In some ways I really don't give a darn what set her off, nor do I really want to hear it. What she owes me is a deep and sincere apology. Maybe then we could be friends. I hope so.

I have decided that I will continue to attend the meeting in August. I'm not going to let Pamela "win" or know she got to me, or allow her to control me. But I will be careful when I'm around her, you can be sure of that.

Hugs

Emma

You go girl! :)

Sorry to hear about her badgering you like that. There are always going to be one in many groups that are on a high horse.

Have news for "Pamela": When you make "you" statements, that is the same as pointing a finger at someone; you have three pointing back at you. Secondly, the most important thing is NOT how you pass as a woman. The most important thing is what is going on between the ears! Being a woman starts from the inside and works it's way out. It is NOT how you dress; it is how you ACT!

Monica

Emma -

I think you had every right to feel like you were being interrogated, belittled, and discredited. And it's certainly understandable how she brought back feelings and emotions of a time that was not so happy.

Pamela sounds very much to me like the type who believes that if you're not about to kill yourself, or castrate yourself, you are neither serious nor truly transsexual.

She also reminds me of the type that believe there is no such thing as a different path for each of us - if you are trans, you will do everything within your power yesterday to transition.

Pamela is just one person in the group. No matter where we go...there's always that one person. That one bully. Or that one butthead. It sounds like at the moment, you are the "youngest" of the group (not in age, but in experience), the vulnerable one, the kind she likes to prey on. Sounds like she's damn good at it too.

I think maybe you have allies in other members of the group, and hopefully in the therapist. And of course, as Christie pointed out, you have TGG, too.

-Mike

"The most important thing is how well you pass as a woman."

I think what I said in a post I wrote before is important here. Being authentically transgender isn't about reaching a supposed ideal (particularly an ideal founded in patriarchal cisheteronomativity), it is about becoming most authentically ourselves and the best versions of ourselves. The concept of 'passing' is problematic. Being transgender isn't about reaching a particular destination or goal that satisfies the requisite gatekeepers. Being transgender is a life-long journey about self discovery and we reach many destinations along the way that mean a variety of different things to different people.

Love

Charl

-o0o-

Hi Everyone,

Thank you so much for such heartfelt and supportive comments. Sigh. I'm very lucky to have found you and to be part of this group. I love you all.

I don't want to sound silly, but... Remember when Sally Field was accepting her award and said, "I guess you really do like me!" I feel like that now, thank you. (She is so sweet, I've always loved her. When she played The Flying Nun I was about ten years old and yeah, I wanted to be a nun too.)

Yes, there is always someone like Pamela in every group. We all know that, we've all experienced it. I was just so surprised and caught off guard. And sure, allowing oneself to be off guard should be normal in a support group.

I think that's the main point that I need to take away from this episode. It's okay to be myself and be vulnerable. But there are wolves in sheep's clothing everywhere we go and we need to watch out for them and try to be prepared.

I hope you all have a wonderful Wednesday! Hopefully my new top/shirt will be ready to pick up at REI today. :-)

Emma

Hey Veronica,

Great points, thank you. "The most important thing is how Emma feels about Emma." Indeed, Emma was nervous, and allowing herself to trust and be vulnerable, so sometimes that's what happens. But it takes vulnerability to grow. And honestly? I like feeling vulnerable. So I will do it more.

"If you're 72, had surgery, and taking the measure of how you see yourself through the narrow prism of 'how well you pass'?" I think, Veronica, that's a wonderful observation. Evidently that's how she thinks, and well, I wish I'd thought to ask that of her at that moment! But I will say that it's too bad, and a bit sad, if that's the way she feels after going through so much. I've wondered before if she's lonely. Maybe that's why she attends these meetings.

Thank you for your kind thoughts and comments. I appreciate you.

Emma

I don't think it matters how well you pass. There's one helluva lot of genetic women who don't "pass" too good out where I live. So much so that I do okay without making any attempt to do so.

I'm told that used to be some counselors did consider how much reasonable chance for success there was for a given client in a new gender but passing was only a part of the arithmetic that they used to figure. [Most of the figuring seemed to be based on whether the client could be expected find a job and make a living in in the new gender.]

Wouldn't have been surprised at something like what you experienced happening to you at a non-counselor led support group but I am kinda surprised at such happening at a counselor-led support group. Sounds like the counselor kinda lost control of the group. Or maybe she never really had control of the group since you say this Pamela woman has a reputation for acting this way.

I don't think I'd have gone out to eat with this outfit afterwards though, least not if this Pamela woman was going too. But then I'm kinda particular who I break bread with. Sounds to me like this Pamela's been getting away with this sort of thing for a long time which makes me think again that maybe the group could be moderated a tad more tightly.

I'm glad that your counselors are not pushing you to present more obviously femme in your outward appearance. I've heard that some counselors do that. I read in a book someplace that Christine Jorgensen never wore a dress in public until after she had her sex-change surgery. [i heard she actually made the dress herself too!]

"Sounds like the counselor kinda lost control of the group. Or maybe she never really had control of the group since you say this Pamela woman has a reputation for acting this way." -- Daniella

I had a similar thought... hopefully, the counselor has made amends by not only discussing this with Emma, but also by making sure dear Pamela doesn't assualt anyone like that again.

-Mike

Interestingly, she has not talked to me further about it although yesterday I reached out to her via email to see if maybe she might need someone to share with. After all, it appeared to me that she was shaken up too, but maybe I was mistaken.

This morning I had a one-on-one with my "regular therapist." I told him that I didn't feel that Susan's comment that I should try to get over it, and that Pamela isn't important in my life, isn't especially helpful. Interpreted in the worst way (which I don't believe she intended) it's kind of dismissive.

I expect that this will be (or should be) a topic of conversation at our next group meeting, which is unfortunately four weeks from now. Not to talk about Pamela (she won't be back until August) but, I think, to hear about what was going on for Susan, and how we might have better handled the situation. No doubt it will happen again, somewhere, someplace. For me I need to try to remember that something as simple as "I don't appreciate being talked to in that way" is probably a great tool for me to keep handy on my Sam Browne. (Now, we'll see who of you know what I'm referring to!)

Bender does indeed rock! Benders always do ;-)

LOL! I'll try to remember BMSMA (bite my shiny metal ass). That brings up some images that I'd better not share...

I'd never even heard of Bender, but just looked him up. Thank goodness for Wikipedia. Looks like a cool robot. Man, I'm so OUT of it!

Take care girls! Stay sweet! You all rock like CRAZY, you know? At least for me you do. Thanks so much for all your support and kind wishes. :-)

Oh Emma, you definitely need to find and watch Futurama! It's one of the greatest all-time animated series, and (in my opinion) Bender was the best part of it!

Hi Emma,

It sounds like your sister at the meeting has some of the same qualities I see in others of her generation. Specifically, the idea that because it was hard for them then it should be hard for you.

I should expect she had to spend a lot of her life being someone else, pretending. Finally, when she knew who she was, she probably had to spend a very long time explaining it. Justifying it. She may even feel like being transgender is almost a 'club', for which the price of admission is soul-searching, justification and suffering.

Anyone who has not done those things is not really transgender and needs to shape up or find somewhere else to sling their hook.

Naturally she's mistaken, and whilst I can only sympathise with her for whatever hardships have given her a flint-like edge you are well within your rights to feel hurt. She hurt you and must take responsibility for that.

There is no admission cost, there is no minimum level of suffering or pain one must go through. Being transsexual is as much a part of us as the sheen on our eyes or the subdermal scattering of our skin.

There's an old joke that goes something like this:

Q: "How many transsexuals does it take to change a light bulb?"

A: "One. But only after they have first lived in the dark for at least two years and have the agreement of two psychiatrists that the bulb is, indeed, blown."

The lengths we have to go to 'prove' who we are can have bad effects on people. They must take responsibility for inflicting that down on to others. You don't have to prove anything, however. There is no timescale, no measure and no schedule except your own.

I'm sure the shirt and ballet shoes looked very nice and suited you well. Personally I found the first time I wore a long skirt to be almost like breathing freedom.

Kaylee.

Hi Kaylee,

Such a nice note, thank you. And, I really did laugh out loud reading your light bulb joke. I'm definitely going to remember that one!

You put into words a vague feeling I had about what was behind her words. I was also wondering if I was being tested to see if I was worthy of joining the club. I've heard that she may not come again to the meetings but the earliest will be August.

Actually, I am also thinking of wearing a skirt at the next meeting! I ordered one that should arrive tomorrow. I'm confident the therapist would allow me to come a few minutes early to put it on. I'm feeling excited by that, like stepping a little further into the pool.

Thanks again,

Emma

Good luck with the skirt :)