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5 hours ago, MonicaPz said:

when she wanted a Shirley Temple lookalike

Ugh  😖

Shirley Temple was cuter than a ladybug on a daisy...no doubt.  You and I being about the same age, I'm not surprised your Mum was looking for a "lookalike."  I think a lot of mothers during that time frame wanted their own little Shirley Temple.   I was actually taken to the salon when I was little where I was adorned with that classic Temple hair-do.  My hair was blonde, I had a deep dimple in one cheek.  The picture is cute...but I cringe everytime I have to see it!!

Sassy-lookin' little style ya got goin' there! Very nice... 👍 🙂

"She did however say that if I ever walked in wearing a straw like cheap barbie style wig that she would disown me. Which seems fair enough."   -- DeeDee

You crack me up, Dee!!!   😄😄

Sounds like she's a great little sister.

"I literally "EEEEK'ed" in the car afterwards."  -- DeeDee

LOL... made me smile.  I could image how excited and happy you were.

On 8/26/2020 at 10:58 AM, Dawn13 said:

Image shows the measurement procedure of dorsal digit length using vernier calipers. The hand is placed on the edge of a table so that fingers are rested on table while making an angle of 90 degrees to the palm.

I had never heard of placing the hand on the edge of a table and creating that 90 degree angle.  It seems to make the difference in ring finger length as compared to the index finger more pronounced.

__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Did you know? ----  Ring finger length is one of the reasons that a hate group was calling Michelle Obama a transsexual.

Congrats, Jessica.  In reading this blog entry, I can only picture you smiling - you sound very happy.

Glad all went well.  Take care and all the best on the remainder of the healing process.

-Michael

13 hours ago, Blackangel said:

I will never be able to stop hating myself for having done this. I was a stupid, cruel, hateful piece of trash. And part of it was because I refused to admit who and what I am.

And part of it was because of how you were raised.  Neither is an excuse, true enough.  As a person gets older and begins to experience life, they should hopefully begin to see and understand any short-comings they might have been raised under, and work on change.  In your case, you know that you were raised being taught to hate anyone who was different from yourself.  You came to realize that that is wrong.  THAT is why this incident bothers you - you learned.  Not exactly the ideal way to learn, but learn you did that how you were raised was wrong and hurtful.

You've also grown and realize that part of what you took out on another person, was the anger inside of yourself as a bi-sexual and transgender individual.  But even that hate was taught and learned because our society cannot deal with diversity.  You hated yourself because what you were being taught made you believe there was something wrong with you.

And something occurred to me while reading the recent posts - the guy you beat up, could possibly be suffering his own self-loathing for being gay.  Self-loathing that he learned to subject himself to because of society.  It's possible that he's walked around all this time believing that he deserved that beating.  A very sad thing to think, to consider.  But it's possible.  Could be he's also been hurting all this time for similar reasons as your own.

-Mike

I agree with Monica...the man involved in the the encounter also has things he needs to work on.  Understandably so, but now he must also grapple with the fact that you came to him, olive branch in hand.

You took that first step - sort of like a substance abuser has to first admit they have a problem. You should now try to forgive yourself, and seriously consider Monica's suggestion that you volunteer with some sort of anti-hate group.

You are on the path to healing this wound.  Don't let the victim's inability to meet you in the middle, stop you.  You can't make him accept your apology or forgive you.  Besides healing yourself, all you can do is hope that one day he contacts you.  If he doesn't, go on knowing you tried, and have since worked at doing the right thing.

-Michael

Monica...  no doubt ol' man Walton is constantly turning over in his grave in light of what his heirs have done to his store.

MichelleLea....   thanks.  I'm glad you enjoyed my story.

-Mike

Snug fitting undergarments is the key....  and is why I don't wear boxers.  Too much room for "error."

Hiya Ladies...

All is well here... though all the events I shared are true, I thought I'd lace it all with a little humour.  Some of this, despite the bad, ya just gotta laugh at occasionally.  Watching some of the videos of the inventive ways people have employed to get thru lock-downs and shortages sort of inspired me to toss my adventures out there.

I will say, however, I'm quite glad I checked out Walmart's grocery pick-up before all hell broke loose.  I believe grocery pick-up and delivery helps greatly in avoiding crowds and thereby avoiding the virus.  I've not been to Walmart yet since they've implemented policies on restricting numbers of customers, etc.  And though there are a number of stores very close by and all have grocery delivery, I've not bothered with their services since I already had an online account with Wally World long before this all happened.

As for the disinfecting wipes... I use them now primarily for when we do have to go out.  For example, when I go to get gas, I like to use a wipe on the keypad at the pump, wipe the pump handle, wipe off my debit card and door handle to my truck.  After I acquired the bleach, that's what I use to wipe down things in the house. 

Glad to hear that all of you have found ways to deal with this pre-vaccination life we've found ourselves in.  Except for not being able to go out to eat occasionally... I think my Mum and I are doing okay.

Stay safe, all of ya's.  😊

test

test

Awwwww, shucks.. ::: blushes profusely :::

Thank you, ladies, for your kind words and sharing the fact that you have experienced the same kinds of faux pas and can relate.  The best part is, we have all learned...      And continue to learn!
____________________________________________________

I may do that Monica.  And I was very happy that we figured it out.

LOL...time flies, eh?

It's good to know that cisgender is now in the dictionaries and an accepted word.  I guess now for those who still don't like the word, they really will have to just "get over it" or forever stew in their anger.

ROFLMAO!!

Michelle... your wife, Monica's Mum and my Mum musta all been cut from the same cloth.  Like Monica's Mum, mine also IRONED. EVERY. THING.  Sheets, towels, UNDERWEAR.  EVERYthing!  If it came out of the washer, it got ironed.  I will admit though, that she stopped ironing sheets after she started buying "permanent press" sheets.

I had decided it was just a woman thing until today when I read that Monica is content to fold or hang straight outta the dryer.

I think because of my Mum (she made my brother and I iron occassionally), I hate to iron and will iron nothing except my button-up shirts.  For some reason, I gotta have them looking neat, crisp and spiffy.   😊

Maybe a touch of OCD....

I believe bullying will be around until man can learn to accept all people no matter where they come from, what path they walk or have walked.

Society mandates too many vain, petty, ignorant, irrational and insignificant rules.  These rules adversely affect people causing a variety of insecurities, some of which can manifest as cruelty in one form or another.  

Bullying will also continue to plague this society as long as you have those who grow up to utter things like, "they're just kids," or "they'll grow out of it," or "I was bullied, and I survived," ...  etc., etc., etc., and then turn the other way.   Or worse, they've grown up, still bullies, and pass that behavior on to their own children.

Bullying will continue to plague this society as long as there are parents and other adults from all corners of society who do not condemn the behavior, and teach future generations that differences are natural and normal, and that no one is a lesser being than another.

It's sad that we can all relate to being bullied....

JeffDad --

Despite all that's been said by those who've participated in this discussion, you stand firm in your belief that being trans is a choice, a "lifestyle."  And you are steadfast in your belief that we just "think" or "believe" that we are one gender or the other.

As for my example of the Sadie Hawkins dance, I wasn't out, so of course no one would have asked me to go.  If you had taken in what I wrote, it would have been clear that I suffered my situation alone and in silence.   I wasn't alone, friendless and without romantic relationships because people wanted nothing to do with a transgender man.  They didn't know I existed.

"If I was hearing happy stories.... positive life stories, fulfilling relationship stories.. happy family stories.... or anything that could even be construed as positive I may think differently."   ...   "I do not want this world for my daughter."  --JeffDad
Because of those who make life miserable for so many trans people ... why don't you consider becoming a part of CHANGE, so that your child DOESN'T feel isolated, different, unwanted, bullied, unhappy, etc.?  Starts with one cisgender person at a time.  Join a Straight/Gay Alliance.  Join a LGBTQ+ support group.  Join a transgender group.  I dunno where in Jersey you are, but I do know that in the tri-state area (NJ, eastern PA, southern NY) there are many groups that could be of help.  Become an activist.  Make this world better for your child... don't condemn the lot of us and call us delusional, and dismiss us with, "it's your choice," or "I believe that YOU believe your gender is _______."  We can fight for and hope to gain the same rights you have, but acceptance comes from the cisgender mainstream - from the ones who mandate the unwritten rules of society.  Let's take marriage equality for example:  same-sex marriage is legal now, BUT, that doesn't mean it's generally accepted.  Just means there were those that felt they finally had to do the right thing.   And it certainly doesn't mean that society now accepts gay people.  It takes the haters to change that.

Ya know what else isn't a choice?  Being born.  Your child didn't ask to be born.  In fact, he had no say what-so-ever in the matter.  And because he had no choice, those who brought him into this world should accept him in whatever way shape or form he turned out - without reservation.  And if everyone accepted everyone the way they are, there'd be no reason to worry.  This world will never be safe for anyone who is different until those who have issue with difference, change.  

I really wish we could be of more help.  I was hoping we could help you accept your child the way he is and understand that this is not a choice, a desire, a whim or a phase.  I wish all of you, especially your children, the best.  Maybe one day, they will be the ones to usher in an era where people are just people, and sex and gender are simply medical designations only, and not something to be used as licenses by others to hate or hurt, withhold equality, or deny happiness.

Good luck
-David Michael

Hey Jeff -
It's obvious that emotions are high and intense surrounding the gender identity of your child.  Seems now, that a "fight or flight" instinct is beginning to kick in.  Sadly, I see the fight.  And before I go further, please understand that you will not get the validation that you appear to need or are looking for.  Rather we will, to an extent, try to get you to accept whether you understand or not, and to rally around your son (and his mother) 'cause people like us are just another minority that society loses no sleep at all in beating up on us, denying us rights, and in some cases - KILLING us.  I've received PMs from members expressing frustation from not knowing what more to say or do for you, and concern for your child.  Your most recent entry explains why - at least for me it does.

In your 2nd entry (01 July), you closed with, "if I am coming across as callous or unfeeling I don't mean to.  I am asking serious questions."  I responded to this, that you had nothing to worry about as long as it was obvious you wanted to learn, and as long as we detected no [intentional] callouness.  I hoped you were working toward accepting your child's gender identity.   I think the [unintentional?] callousness I seem to be detecting is due to your own fears, and your concern for what people will think of you.

MomPride has not jumped on any "trans train."  The only people guilty of that are those in areas of media that sensationalize transsexuality and try to capitalize on it (and the porn industry, unfortunately).  It's a hot topic for some, and the media knows there are people who will watch whatever they put out like people at a freak show.  Though I'm sure you didn't intent to, by saying this to MomPride, you disrespected her on every level possible, and invalidated her son.

You do not have to delude yourself.  But in light of the fact that your child has come out as trans and identifies as male, the only delusion now would be if you caused your child to retreat into the female role that you expect so that you can happily go on about your life - delusionally, but [allegedly] happy.  Once again, you've disrespected MomPride (and everyone else in the community) by, in so many words, calling her delusional.

We all suffer disasters in our lives - some small, some big, some managable, some not, some temporary, some last for periods longer than we think we can endure, some last a lifetime.  And some are more than we can endure, at which time some choose to pull the plug.  While it is true that society treats us like so much trash (actually worse because some trash is recycled!), being able to be oneself is priceless.   There are those who dislike black people and other people of colour.  Such people feel that dislike everyday.  But they can no more change what they are than a trans person can.  I know this is going to sound cliche, and my apologies in advance, but...  we do not choose to identify as a gender contradictory to our birth sex any more than you choose to be cisgender and heterosexual.  Tell me, please, why would we intentionally subject ourselves to the unacceptance and hate of the populace?  WHY?

I am 60 years old, Jeff.  I've known from a very young age that I was not like my mother, or her mother, or her sister, or her best [female] friend, or any other female that had, to that point, walked into or past my little life.  
            After I started school is when the problems started.  I had no words back then for what I felt inside, but I instinctively emulated other boys.  Of course that didn't go over well and I learned to hide my true identity.  That did not come without consequences, however.  Most of my school years were friendless.  In elementary school girls seemed to instinctively know I was different from them... I wasn't one of them.  Staff and faculty kept me from participating with the boys - where I really wanted to be.   
            The onset of puberty caused changes I detested, especially breasts - the very things I knew from about 1st or 2nd grade that I would never want.  And at the time, had no reason to think I would get them - I just knew I wouldn't want them.  And then, WHAM! There they were.  I have since then tried every way possible to hide them, make them less noticeable, pretend they don't exist.  The appearance of pubic hair also distressed me because I did not know that everyone had pubic hair.  The disgust (most likely dysphoria) caused lasting issues.
            I spent a good part of my junior high years trying to figure out how I could painlessly and successfully kill myself.  The fear of failure kept me from doing so.  I was afraid I would get arrested (we were always told suicide was against the law); I was afraid I'd get in trouble with my parents (both were very strict, and my dad was military); and I didn't want to end up a vegetable in an institution where people would have to tend to every aspect of life for me, leaving my mis-shapen, wrongly developed body exposed for those tasked with caring for me, to see.
            My high school years were hell.  Imagine being the only boy in all-girl spaces, hormones RAGING, and you can't do a damn thing about it.  I was one of the boys that didn't get asked to the Sadie Hawkins dance (and so missed out on that event altogether).  I didn't get to ask a girl to the either Jr or Sr prom (and so missed out on both events altogether).  I didn't get to play football or baseball.  I was relegated to softball and the girl's versions of gymnastics.

The older I got, the more clear it got with each passing year that society sucks, and I could not be myself.  I had to continue to pretend to be someone else just to keep from being bullied, shunned, hated, ridiculed, teased, etc, whether from family or strangers.  Somewhere between high school and adulthood, I developed a love/hate for females.  I hated them because I was lumped in with them, and then of course, like any heterosexual male, I wanted a woman to love and who would love me.   Now here's the thing - even pretending to be female, throughout my life, I've been bullied, shunned, hated, ridiculed, teased, etc, at various times in different places.  So, if I had known there would still be that kinda crap, I could have done it as a boy, as a man.  My entire life has been wasted on fear.  My entire life has been wasted on pretending to be a female just to keep people like you from hating me.  This forum (and being online) is the only place where I have been able to be ME.  Where I can be myself and the members here treat me with respect, with acknowledgment, with acceptance, with friendship, with love.

There's nothing you can do to change this, Jeff.  BUT, you have two choices:
            1.  You deny your child's gender identity, and you guarantee nothing but pain in more ways than you care to know.
            2.  You accept your child's gender identity, and help him to be the best he can be, so that he can find the strength to live his life in spite of the haters and bigots.  

Somewhere among the many discussion here, a former member posted that she told her mother she (the mother) had a choice - she could have a dead daughter, or a living daughter.  In other words, dead or alive, the member was a [trans] woman, and not a man.  The mother just had to decide which she preferred.

If I am coming across as callous or unfeeling I don't mean to.  Being trans is serious. 

David Michael

Hey, Dad...I am very glad to see you return.  I was just about to give up on ya when I signed in this evening and discovered all the activity on your blog entry.  I can only imagine how difficult this might be for you.  Keep in mind it may also be just as difficult for your child - it may not have occurred to you, but your pain is no doubt affecting [her] and making things difficult for [her] too, and may even be blaming [her]self.  Bad part about that is, [she's] done nothing wrong to take the blame for.  No one has - meaning, not even you and your wife as parents.  Has nothing to do with your parenting.   We are, what we are.

NOTE:  In case you are wondering -- I've chosen to not refer to your child as male (out of respect for you for now), but if your child IS trans, I don't want to blantantly refer to [her] as if [she] were a cisgender female, and is why I have been putting terms like "she" and "her" in brackets [].  I use the bracketed terms as, "for lack of a better term."

"While I understand that you believe you are transgender..."
Just as you know in your heart, your very soul, what you are, so do trans people.  While we know no other existence, the discord is stressful and affects nearly every aspect of our lives.  

"...has this decision to live this way really made your lives better?"
There are many trans people who have successfully transitioned and live a happy life.  But whether one transitions or not, s/he is still transgender.  True enough that not all people are happy after they transition - the reasons are varied, and not always transition related.  But it seems across the board, that no one is happy untransitioned.  It's difficult to go thru life having to put on an act.  Pretending to be something/someone you are not and to constantly have to tolerate being treated as something/someone you are not.     

"If I am coming across as callous or unfeeling I don't mean to.  I am asking serious questions."
Part of the reason for the existence of this board is not only to have a place to support each other, but to support people like you, too.  We realize that this is difficult.  Callous and unfeeling comes into play when a person flatly refuses to even try to understand, or to accept - whether they understand or not.  'Cause, let's be honest, unless you yourself harbour some issue with gender, a cisgender person can NEVER fully understand what it's like to be trans - just like we can never know what it's really like to be cisgender.  But you can learn to accept.  You can realize that male or female, this is your child... and learning that your child is not the gender you expected does not make that child suddenly a different person.   Believe me, we can tell the difference in intentional callousness borne of bigotry or hate, and the mis-steps and grappling of someone looking for help and answers, someone who wants to learn.

As for binding...I recommend extreme caution in using anything adhesive-backed.  Also, avoid Ace bandage at all costs - it can cause irreversible damage and injury not only externally, but also internally.  If you are going to allow your child to start binding now, and especially in light of the fact that you have indicated that [she] is exhibiting distress in development, I highly suggest you look into a proper binder.    I personally use this one, but there are several models and it may take trying a couple before your child finds one that is suitable and performs satisfactorily.

-Mike

"Girl haircuts and clothing are the only choices and that if this is what she wants to choose when she is 18, then I can't stop her."  -- Jeff

And if [she] IS transgender, and doesn't make it to 18?  What then?  Will you be happy?  The suicide rate for transgender people is disproportionately and sickenly higher than in any other group.  Not trying to scare you or make you feel bad... I just think there's a bigger picture you need to be consider rather than your own misplaced pain.

If [she] IS transgender, by 18, the poison of estrogen will have widened [her] hips, put fat where [she] will not want it, and put breasts on [her] chest...which [she] will no doubt despise and be disgusted by.

You will find all the documentation you want that debunks the existence transsexuality... doesn't make it factual.  Just bolsters what you choose to believe.  For now, the only proof it actually exists is differences in the brain - but that can only be discovered after one is dead.

If [she] IS transgender, [she] is NOT mentally ill... as are none of the rest of us.  Only a competent mental health professional will be able to help you all - and [her] - determine if [she] is indeed trans, or just suffering the hellish trials of growing up.  I was at least heartened to learn that you are getting counselling for your son... he has learned this unacceptance by those around him.  Hopefully he is still young enough to learn and realize that homophobia and transphobia is not pretty, and that GLBT people are no different than straight and cisgender (non-transgender) people.

If [she] IS transgender, this is just as hard on [her] as on you... if not more so.  But any hardship [she] may be enduring is not of [her] making... but of the society around [her] that villifies people like us for no good or logical reasons.

I wish all of you - but especially your child - good luck.

-Michael

P.S.  I would recommend that you consider checking out the Transgender Children & Youth forum.  And even the FTM Discussion forum

Some believe all friendships must be face-to-face relationships, and that online relationships cannot be formed, do not exist, or are fake.  And I'm going to say that most of the people who feel that way are, "of a certain age" or older.  I think it is people from older generations who think online relationships are empty.

When I was younger, and long before the internet, some people had "pen pals."    Since I have no kids, I cannot say whether pen pals is a thing anymore or not.  Some people have had life-long pen pals, and have never met in person.   In order for such relationships to last, I would think that the people involved would have had to become friends of some sort.

Today, we have the internet.  I see this as being no different than exchanging letters with someone.  And in fact, I believe friendships formed prior to any face-to-face meeting (IF one ever occurs) can sometimes form quickly and be stronger, because in some cases, the people involved get to actually know the person - not what they look like or where they come from.  For many, if not most or all, the possibility of relationships are too often determined/decided on what a person looks like.  I believe that most people will never know how many truly good, close, and potentially life-time friendships they could have had simply because they ignored someone (in "real time") because of what they looked like.

As for it being lonely at the top... I think it depends on the people involved.  

CO-WORKERS (or more precisely, former co-workers)
If a person's friends are also co-workers, then yeah, I agree - those friends will dwindle and fall away as a person's career advances.  I can say this from experience -  I retired as a supervisor.  While the experience was good, if I had to do it over, I think I would not again go after a supervisory position. Quite often, the higher up the food chain, the less you are trusted.  Employees also have a tendancy to be unsure what they should or shouldn't say in your presence.  Some employess may believe that they no longer have anything in common with their former co-worker.  There are probably a list of reason as long as you arm as to why a person loses co-worker friends once that person becomes a part of management.  The old friends are sometimes replaced by those in same/similar/comparable positions.  And then of course... some companies discourage friendships between certain positions.  

NON-CO-WORKERS
However, I don't see why a person would lose that many friends when those friends have nothing to do with the company/business where you work.  Though I'm sure it's possible there's alway the one that harbours the same kinds of attitudes as a co-worker.  But I would think such people would be encountered less.

-Michael

​Christy -

Profiles/accounts could not be migrated.  If you haven't already made it there...  yes, you must re-register...     https://tgguide.com/transgender-chat/

-Michael

Hiya Squirrely ....

Thought I saw you in chat a few days ago... so I guess you finally made it.  I don't look in on the blogs too often, otherwise I'd have seen your blog for help with chat.

See ya on the flip side...

Michael